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Tagged with “podcast” (30)

  1. Podcast #502: Why You Should Talk to Strangers | The Art of Manliness

    Talking to new people can lead to making new connections and learning interesting things, and simply makes both you and the person you talk with happier. Yet many of us have a very difficult time striking up a conversation with strangers. Why is this? My guest today has done studies to find out. Her name is …

    https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/why-you-should-talk-to-strangers/

    —Huffduffed by demmons

  2. Jack Donovan Interview | MatingGrounds

    Introduction:

    Our guest today is one of the manosphere’s most influential and prominent thinkers: Jack Donovan, author of The Way of Men. Most of our interviews are about how men can do better with women; this one is not like that at all. In this episode, we talk about his (excellent) book, about masculinity, and about other male-centered issues. If you’re interested in that stuff, you’ll love this discussion, but if you just want actionable information relating to women, you probably want to skip this one.

    Podcast:

    You can click here (right click, then click save as) to download the episode directly.

    Click here to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes.Click here to subscribe to the podcast on Stitcher.

    Video:

    [coming soon]

    SPONSOR: This episode is sponsored by Bookhacker. They do the reading, so you don’t have to. Check them out on Amazon or Bookhacker.net.

    If you want to sponsor the Mating Grounds Podcast, email [email protected].

    Key takeaways:

    If you cultivate the traits that earn you respect from other men and that make them want you as a friend or ally or mentor or member of their gang, you’re almost 70% or 80% of the way there in terms of what women also find attractive. If a guy did nothing other than cultivate the traits that other guys respect they’d still be doing way better than most guys are in terms of heterosexual attractiveness.

    If you feel disenchanted or disenfranchised from the modern world, the first step you should take is trying to form connections to other men in your area who like similar things and you get along with. Build a network, create your own community.

    Forming close bonds with other men is important.

    Men bond over aggression, but it doesn’t have to be against each other – it can be aggression against nature, hunting, climbing Mt.Everest, doing something risky, or completing a task that’s really hard.

    As we’ve said before, the alpha/beta male distinction and the whole word ‘alpha’ is fucking stupid. The majority of the time it’s mentioned it’s someone referring to themselves as alpha, and if you have to say you’re alpha, you’re not alpha. It’s like saying “I’m part of the elite”. The elite don’t say that.

    Men can be very caring and empathetic and still be masculine.

    A lot of vested interests try to define masculinity and what alpha is for young men in a way that’s in their interests. For example, marketers tell you that you become masculine by buying their stuff, captains of industry say you’re masculine if you work hard, etc. Be skeptical of people who can benefit from telling you what masculinity is. Ask yourself “Who wants me to be this way and why?”

    Links from this episode

    Jack’s article on The Wolves of Vinland

    Jack’s interview with Paul from The Wolves of Vinland

    The Power of Clan

    Jack Donovan’s Bio:

    Author of The Way of Men, Androphilia, A Sky Without Eagles, and Blood-Brotherhood and Other Rites of Male Alliance

    Jack writes about masculinity and manliness, and is known for his critiques of feminism and gay culture(despite being gay himself)

    Jack contributes to Radix Journal, Counter-Currents, the Spearhead and Alternative Right

    Jack publishes a podcast called Start the World

    Jack Donovan’s Major Works:

    The Way of Men

    Jack describes this project as aiming to “develop a universal definition of masculinity”

    There is a difference between being a “good guy” and being manly – e.g. if Batman is manly, is Bane unmanly? No, of course not.

    Different groups will have different agendas that they try to impose: “Established men of wealth and power have always wanted men to believe that being a man was about duty and obedience, or that manhood could be proved by attaining wealth and power through established channels. Men of religion and ideology have always wanted men to believe that being a man was a spiritual or moral endeavor, and that manhood could be proved through various means of self-mastery, self-denial, self-sacrifice or evangelism. Men who have somethin gto sell have always wanted men to believe that masculinity can be proved or improved by buying it.”

    Argues that the only way to reclaim masculinity and return to honor and manly virtue is to start a gang. Says “there are no moderate solutions to the problems presented by global capitalism, multiculturalism and feminism. Pan-secession into tribal groups within a failing state is the only alternative I see within most nations.” (source)

    Qualifies this by saying “You don’t have to have a Liberian-style gang. That’s not the only option. It’s definitely not a “starter” option. Think of the Yakuza or the Mafia, or as I’ve said recently, underground networks of immigrants. I don’t think many of us are ready to be Liberians, and I don’t think many of us would want to behave as they do. There are shades of gray between being a complete slave to the State and 8-year olds shooting each other with AK-47s.” (source)

    The book highlights four “tactical virtues” – honor, strength, mastery and courage – which he talks about in this piece on Thought Catalog

    On honor, Jack says: “Caring about what the men around you think of you is a show of respect, and conversely, not caring what other men think of you is a sign of disrespect.” (source)

    On modern men: “Men today are so protected and coddled. They’re told that they deserve “respect” just because they’re breathing. Many don’t have fathers, and whether they do or not, they have mothers and teachers and the media telling them that no one should ever bully them or make them feel bad. They play games where everybody is declared a winner. We all post our pictures and thoughts and feelings online, and expect people to “like” them and make us feel good about ourselves. This constant affirmation makes men narcissistic, delusional and weak.” (source) This isn’t a quote from the book but it’s an indication of what he thinks.

    Androphilia

    Book is a criticism of gay culture

    Jack uses the phrase “androphilia” to describe himself as a man attracted to other men, but to distinguish himself from the connotations of the label “gay”.

    Quote: “Gay is a subculture, a slur, a set of gestures, a slang, a look, a posture, a parade, a rainbow flag, a film genre, a taste in music, a hairstyle, a marketing demographic, a bumper sticker, a political agenda and philosophical viewpoint. Gay is a pre-packaged, superficial persona–a lifestyle. It’s a sexual identity that has almost nothing to do with sexuality.”

    A Sky Without Eagles

    This is a collection of his essays and speeches, covering topics like the necessity of violence, masculinity, anarcho-fascism and becoming a barbarian.

    Some quotes: “The only ‘freedom’ that feminism offers men is the freedom to do exactly what women want him to do.”, “Violence comes from people. It’s about time people woke up from their 1960s haze and started being honest about violence again. People are violent, and that’s OK. You can’t legislate it away or talk your way around it”, “The pro-feminist male is a wretched, guilt-ridden creature who must at every turn make certain he is not impeding the progress of women in any way.”

    Further reading on Jack Donovan:

    Speech Jack gave at the New Policy Institute called “Becoming the New Barbarians” (27 minutes long)

    Transcript of a good interview with Jack

    Another interview with Jack that addresses, among other things, his latest book and his position on race

    Interesting piece Jack wrote on women who lift weights or do Crossfit etc.

    Jack’s Twitter

    Jack’s Website

    Jack’s Wikipedia Page

    Podcast Audio Transcription:

    Tucker:

    Let me try–I’m going to hang up and call him first and then you.

    Jack:

    You have reached New Barbarian Tattoo and this is Jack Donovan. Leave me a message.

    Tucker:

    Oh wait. Hold on. Here he is. Here he is.

    Geoff:

    Okay.

    Tucker:

    Alright let me add him. Oh, man.

    Jack:

    There!

    Tucker:

    Yo, Jack.

    Jack:

    Hey! How’s it going?

    Tucker:

    Good. What’s going on, man? I’ve got Geoff Miller on the line, too.

    Geoff:

    Hey Jack. How you doing?

    Jack:

    Hey. Good to talk to you.

    Tucker:

    So, we just got your voicemail. I’ve got to tell you. That was a pretty fucking awesome voicemail.

    Geoff:

    Does it still say the thing about don’t leave me a message?

    Tucker:

    No, no, I was laughing. It might. I was laughing too hard at the New Barbarian Tattoo. Like this is Mr. Jack. That’s not even your voice, is it? Is that you?

    Jack:

    Yeah, it’s me.

    Tucker:

    It was awesome. It was like, like out of a movie like when you go in to like, you know, like the whatever. You’re getting your. It’s almost like. I felt like if I was going through like a Joseph Campbell like test of manhood like life passage type thing this would be the voice that would welcome me to like the underworld where I actually had to face the beast or something. It was amazing.

    Jack:

    I like that. Thank you. That’s exactly what I was going for.

    Tucker:

    So, I got to say, Jack, I read, I had not read The Way of Men until Geoff had told me about it. I don’t know, six months or a year ago and I was like. I put it on my pile and I was like okay, I’ll read it eventually and just never got to it. And then once we booked you for the podcast, I read it on a plane flight. And I was blown away actually by the book because– Well, just first off, I’m sure you’re about my age now. You’re like 38, 39, something like that right?

    Jack:

    39, yeah.

    Tucker:

    1. So, I’m about to turn 39. So, you probably know what I mean. Like we’ve kind of gotten, at least I’ve gotten to the age where it’s like obviously I haven’t read everything but I’ve read enough that it’s very rare for me to read a book that really either challenges my thinking or like sheds new, really original new sort of lights on things that I hadn’t thought of or something like that, you know? And Way of Men definitely, there were passages where like I sat it down and I was like fuck, I never thought about that like that. That’s really. Either I totally disagree or it’s really brilliant or whatever but they were like. It was- I don’t know. It was a book that had way more intellectual heft than I ever, ever would have guessed from the cover or from whatever sort of other sort of thing. So, I don’t know. Like it’s a fantastic book, dude. I just wanted to tell you before we start.

    Jack:

    Thanks, man. That’s great to hear.

    Geoff:

    Yeah, I had completely the same reaction. That’s why I’ve been recommending it to my Evolutionary psychology colleagues. Saying we’ve basically failed in our mission to understand huge areas of male psychology because we focus so, so much on kind of, you know, female mate preferences and how guys can please women. And we do so little on just male-male relationships and gangs and coalitions and warfare and violence and, you know, status within male hierarchies. I mean, there’s a little on that but it’s just, it’s such a taboo to study that stuff that still it kind of takes somebody outside academia to kind of have the guts to articulate a lot of that stuff. And, so, yeah, it was super impressive and thought provoking to me, too.

    Jack:

    Cool. Thank you.

    Tucker:

    Yeah. So, here’s what I actually want to start. We’ve got a ton of things we want to cover in the interview but my question to you is like what is your general impression? I know you’ve kind of written about this but let’s go over this for the listeners. What’s your general impression of, let’s say, the “manosphere”? And I know that’s a very broad sort of, it’s a very broad set of people but like what are you overall think of, you know, like go down the list, pickup artists, men’s rights activists, like. Where do you kind of, what do you think about, about those people?

    Jack:

    Well, I’ve had a good bit of interaction with all of them.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    I mean, to the point I’ve probably exchanged emails with ¾ of the major names out there. And I’ve talked a lot to a lot of those guys. And as far as like pickup artists, it is helpful and unhelpful. It’s, in many ways what they’re really teaching is gateway masculinity.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    For a bunch of guys who really have really no father figures, no real role models, no and who have been told that everything masculine is bad all their lives.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    And, so, in their quest to get laid they’re learning kind of things that they would learn in a group of men had they ever been part of one.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    You know? But so, it is helpful in the way that it gets them thinking about that kind of stuff. If it becomes just, you know, some of those guys get some helpful information. I knew a guy who’s in his 30s or 40s and read Roissy for a while and it helped them figure out oh, this is who I need to be in this relationship so that it works.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    Instead of just getting pushed around all the time. And now, he has really good relationships. But if it becomes this masculinity measured only by how many women you sleep with then you’re really letting women define masculinity. So, it just becomes very unhelpful at that point.

    Tucker:

    Right. What about the men’s– I hate to use the term men’s rights activists because it seems so ridiculous to me.

    Jack:

    Right.

    Tucker:

    But like how much do you engage with the people who are just it seems like they define it almost seems like their anti they’re sort of the male response to, you know, extreme gender feminists. They are the type who are like every single thing that happens is like oh, this is another example of how awful society is. And sometimes they’re totally right and other times it’s like ‘dude.’ What’s your take on that?

    Jack:

    Well, men’s rights activists by that name to me are feminists because what they’re really looking for is equality and equality between men and women is kind of a silly thing because apples and oranges. But what they are really, they’re calling out women on not actually caring about equality.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    And women just acting in their own interests. And, you know, so, by traditional definitions of what feminism says it wants they are actually feminists.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    You know, they want gender equality. So, I’m not really because I see men and women as being different enough that equality is kind of a strange goal.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    You know, I really don’t count myself among them. But, and also it is very tiresome. I mean, what they really do is argue with women a lot. And then, you know, as Putin said it’s just really not a good idea. So, I mean, basically like arguing with women all the time and they’re being the other side of this hysterical outrage politics that we have now where, you know, the latest thing. And I don’t write about it anymore because it’s tiresome.

    Tucker:

    Yeah.

    Jack:

    You know, what everybody’s gossiping about on Twitter today is what we’re all supposed to care about.

    Tucker:

    Right, right, exactly. Yeah. I know it’s funny, kind of funny like this morning the Ray Rice footage sort of leaked where he hit his wife in the elevator and you actually see him hit her. And it’s like, it’s almost like it’s crazy. I follow a ton of people on Twitter and there’s almost like a race, an escalating race to run up outrage mountain all by white people. And it’s like oh, yeah, look, I can totally see why you would be angry about domestic violence or what– I mean, there’s a ton of reasons to be upset but it’s almost like who can be the most outraged and the most upset to show what an amazingly advanced moral modern person they are.

    Jack:

    It’s totally a social display.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    That’s all it is. It’s like a morality. I always wondered how related to, is like, I mean it’s the thing that women do a lot and now everyone does it.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    But in terms of like this kind of moral display, it’s like almost like a purity display. You know, they’re showing how, I’m more pure than you are. You know, it’s almost like women trying to show that they’re more moral instead of more, you know, men worrying about being courageous. You know, it seems to me like it has something to do with that. Jim Goad actually called it the new church ladies and think that’s very religious impulse.

    Geoff:

    It kind of crushes male courage in terms of expressing your true opinions because the blow back is so intense from both men and women. And there’s also economic incentives behind this because moral outrage is a really reliable way to drive sort of click bait journalism and pageviews. You know, it’s more reliable than almost anything else.

    Tucker:

    Yeah. Outrage and wonder are the two ways you drive click bait and it’s hard to generate wonder. That’s basically upworthy and then outrage is basically gawker media, you know?

    Jack:

    Yeah. Yeah. Everyone’s doing it. I read a little piece about it even major newspapers do it now

    Tucker:

    Yeah. Oh, of course because they have to compete because they have to compete online and.

    Jack:

    Everything’s gawker.

    Tucker:

    Yeah, exactly. But you know it seems to me like, I think the pendulum’s going to swing back the other way. People are already starting to get tired of this because it’s like every post is, you know, like this dog met a kid. You’ll be amazed at what happened next. And it’s like a fucking dog licks the kid. It’s like alright. I’ve seen this shit, right? Like I don’t need. There’s a whole Twitter accounts now that are like saved you a click and like Huff Post spoilers that are like kind of like basically telling you what’s in the click. And they’re amazing not just because they save you a click. I wasn’t going to click on that shit to begin with but it’s like, like you’ll see the link and then usually it’s one or two words and the answer is something ridiculous, you know? Like somebody’ll be like oh, you won’t believe what Gwenyth Paltrow wore to the beach for Con and then like the click, the saved you a click is a bathing suit. Things like this over and over. I think the pendulum’s swinging and people are eventually get tired of that but whatever. That’s just the way. This is the exact same model that happened with yellow journalism early 19th century like very sensationalistic standards developed, people got tired of it. It’s just the pendulum goes back and forth. But Jack, I want to ask you because this was actually one of the things. I didn’t actually realize it because it’s not really that relevant but it’s one of those things that you’re like oh, okay. In the middle of The Way of Men, I realized that you were gay. And you say something about it or I realized it for some reason or something. And it was like, I was like okay because there were some insights you had in there where I was like fuck, how did I never think of it? It’s so obvious once he says it but I never thought of it before. How’d I never think of it? It’s like oh, okay. If he’s a very masculine gay guy then I could totally see how he would see that in a different way. But let me ask you this question. Do you think the fact that being gay, do you think that that in anyway, obviously it impacts your analysis, right? Both positive and negative, right?

    Jack:

    Yeah.

    Tucker:

    Or it makes you more insightful in certain things and less insightful in other things. Because the one thing I read in The Way of Men or the one overall theme I kept coming back to was he hardly talks at all about sort of women and what men– You definitely talk about it but it’s almost like women are a second thought. And I get why. I totally got your line of sort of logic is that even if you’re going to talk about women, women are always historically mostly impressed by men who are high status and the way you become a high status man is to impress other men, right?

    Jack:

    Yeah.

    Tucker:

    I mean, I get that line of thought. It makes a lot of sense. But I just felt like there was a lot more about my experience with women that was sort of missing in the book. It’s not even necessarily disagreeing with your conclusions. It’s just like I don’t know, man. There’s just a lot of other things I like about women or I want about women that don’t necessarily negate what you’re saying. You know what I’m saying? But like.

    Jack:

    Yeah.

    Tucker:

    But like there’s almost like a piece missing, I felt for the book.

    Jack:

    Well, the thing is once you start talking about women then you have a critique of women and you have this whole other mess.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    To deal with. And I wanted to talk about men.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    And obviously, men and their relationship with women is this whole other topic, really. You know, I mean, it’s important but it’s there. And I’m not illiterate in that particular area as most homosexual men are. I mean, I’ve had girlfriends and sex with women and all that kind of stuff. So, it’s not like I don’t get it.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    And also, what’s interesting is I actually have less patience with women because I’ve been the gay best friend and listened to women talk.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    About men. So, like.

    Tucker:

    I totally know what you mean, man.

    Jack:

    I feel like I have that experience, too so maybe I’m like I always say like their tricks really don’t work on me.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    You know? Like but I didn’t want to make it a book of women hating so I didn’t want to get into that.

    Tucker:

    Yeah, yeah.

    Jack:

    I just kind of wanted let’s just talk about men.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Geoff:

    But you also, you’re not that comfortable with the term gay, right? You prefer androphile?

    Jack:

    Yeah, I mean it’s.

    Geoff:

    You talked about gay as a whole kind of lifestyle pact.

    Tucker:

    Right, a subculture. Androphilia is the term you like, right?

    Jack:

    I do. I mean, that was kind of inside conversation for homosexual men just like getting them to talk, think about themselves was kind of the idea. I didn’t really ever expect that to be something that people used in regular society.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    If pressed into discussion about it, I mean I kind of use homosexual because it kind of describes what it is. But I mean, for me, I try to avoid it now just because it’s an issue of like it’s a distraction from what I’m talking about, you know, with in terms of like The Way of Men or whatever. But I really do feel like it, you know, in some way it allowed me like you said to see things that maybe other guys wouldn’t see. And in a way, it’s like the problem of like okay, you can see. Like I’ve been far more effeminate in my life than now and also I’ve looked at, you know, look at most. You know, there’s gay men that they call hundred yard boys that you can see, you can see that that guy likes dick from 100 yards away.

    Tucker:

    Right, right.

    Jack:

    You know. Why do you know? You know, what are you seeing? You aren’t seeing homosexuality. You’re seeing.

    Tucker:

    Feminine mannerisms.

    Jack:

    Yeah. And, so, in many ways that was part of the question that I was trying to answer. Like what are we seeing? What are they signaling? You know, so I mean, I think that that kind of informed my ability to, you know, talk about what manhood is and what it isn’t.

    Geoff:

    One thing that struck me in The Way of Men is that although there’s very little discussion about what women want or what would be attractive to them. Having read it, I kind of thought if you actually cultivated the male traits that earn you respect from other men and that are attractive to them as, you know, wanting you as a friend or ally or mentor or member of your gang or member of your platoon that you’re kind of almost 70% or 80% of the way there in terms of what women also find attractive.

    Jack:

    Right.

    Geoff:

    So, it seemed like there was a really big overlap where even if guys did nothing other than just cultivate the traits that other guys respect they’d still be doing way better than most guys are in terms of heterosexual attractiveness.

    Jack:

    Yeah.

    Geoff:

    Do you agree with that?

    Jack:

    In terms of attractiveness I think, at that point they become increasingly frustrated with women. It’s like a lot of guys who are, you know, in the military and stuff like that. I’ve had a lot of experience with guys like that who are really masculine guys. In their head, they exist in such a male world that they have a real, they get really frustrated with women really quickly, you know? So, it’s like, women might find them more like sexually desirable but then, you know, and more mysterious almost because it’s like an other.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    In the same way. You know, like, I think those guys get really frustrated with women because they talk about things they don’t want to talk about and feel things they don’t want to feel, you know?

    Geoff:

    Yeah.

    Tucker:

    Here’s the thing that I like one of the things I really liked about The Way of Men. One of my favorite things actually about it was how, how starkly honest–Well, first off, how stark the prose is. Like you, it’s so awesome, so many fucking books that are 350 pages and should be 50.

    Jack:

    Right.

    Tucker:

    It’s just like oh, God dude just say it. I want to take a red pen to 90% of it and especially even by academics, especially. It’s like alright. And, so, your book is so great. It gets everything out of the way in that regard. But, also, how starkly honest you are about violence and how violence is the bedrock of almost all interactions and whether people recognize it or not etc. etc. So, let me ask you. What would you recommend? Well, first off, this is more of a personal question. Why did you pick the word gang instead of tribe? Was it because of like the underlying that you think like violence is sort of the underlying bedrock of all interactions and gang reflects sort of the violent nature of masculinity more than a tribe does? Tribe includes more women or like why did you pick that word as opposed to something else like tribe?

    Jack:

    Yeah, because tribe is everyone.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    Tribe is children and whole families and all that whereas I’m talking about basically the mannerbund. You know, you’re talking about groups of men who are organized around the concept of violence as a job a description.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    Really, I mean, that’s what they do and, you know, that’s kind of their first priority rather than, you know. Like tribe is everyone. Tribe is what they’re trying to protect.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    In many cases, you know? So, it’s. It is, it’s a word that makes, you know, people upset because they want to call it something else, you know, which is fine. I mean, it is, you know, kind of intentionally controversial but I mean, I think it does describe. I think it takes the morality out of it because we call gangs basically anybody the government doesn’t like.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    And, you know, when the government makes gangs then it’s, they’re not gangs they’re something else.

    Tucker:

    They’re called a police force or military.

    Jack:

    Exactly. It’s all the same thing really.

    Tucker:

    Yeah.

    Jack:

    So, I mean those guys are gangs just as much as anybody else. They’re, you know, very insular in many cases and–

    Tucker:

    Right. So, let me ask. Just I’m a little confused though. One of the things and I totally got like sort of the, the idea that men are going to have to in a way stop sucking at the teat of the nanny state in order to become more masculine. But do you see that? Let’s say, in the vaguest sense, as breaking down into real like violent gangs that oppose each other or is more like? Because you talk also other times in the book where civilization is a tradeoff between sort of violence and sort of not non-violence but more lack of violence, convenience and all those sorts of things. Or is it more like I’m going to form a gang and we’re going to define ourselves in sort of different ways but not necessarily violently oppose other gangs? Or am I missing sort of?

    Jack:

    Well, I think violence always ends up being a part of it if you’re serious.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    Yeah, if you’re really, you know, if you’re really about protecting your interests over somebody else’s interests somewhere down the line violence is on the table.

    Tucker:

    So, what do you think of Steven Pinker’s stuff and lots of other people have written like basically human progress is– Like I train MMA, so I don’t have an agenda necessarily.

    Jack:

    Right, right.

    Tucker:

    An anti-violence agenda. I’m a big fan- I get what you’re saying. But on the other hand, it’s like in the aggregate if you’re looking at civilization or society as a whole, violence benefits pretty much no one except for the guys who win the fight, right?

    Jack:

    Right.

    Tucker:

    Whereas, something more like, you know, trade. The more society has shifted away from violence and towards property rights and defined set of rules that can allow for trade.

    Jack:

    Yes.

    Tucker:

    Basically, the safer and the more prosperous within certain definitions civilization becomes, right? So, in your mind, where does the balance sit? Let’s say in your ideal world or whatever.

    Jack:

    Right. Well, I’ve thought a lot about that. I mean, basically what you’re saying is someone said, you know, when men stop talking, you know, about killing each other and start talking about making money then society is better. And then, I don’t necessarily know if I agree with that in terms of, I mean. It’s better in terms of we have more cool stuff.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    I don’t know about, it’s better in the way that men experience their lives, you know? I don’t. It just depends on what. It’s a philosophical thing about what you think is good.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    You know, it’s like is everybody being safe and everybody having, you know, iPhones, the ultimate good or is there, are there other considerations? It’s a conflict between honor and materialism.

    Tucker:

    Okay. Right. But, I guess here’s the goal, not the goal, the end point of this line of questioning. Is it possible for – and I don’t know the answer, dude. I’m more curious about what you think. Is it possible for men to fulfill the requirements of masculinity, at least the way you define them in your book which I think are pretty solid. Is it possible to fulfill those requirements without an actual combat violent interaction with other men as opposed forces? Whereas like I don’t consider training for violence to defend yourself, I don’t consider that violence. It’s violence, of course, but you’re not, you’re not trying to kill somebody else. You’re trying to make sure no one can kill you, right?

    Jack:

    Right.

    Tucker:

    Which is very different, like I trained in MMA. I don’t go out and rob people with it.

    Jack:

    Right.

    Tucker:

    You know what I’m saying, right? So, is there a way or do you see a way to that men could create a cultural world, a civilization where they can fully or nearly fully express their masculinity without there having to be lots of intergroup violence like wars, etc. which are highly destructive and, you know, kill a lot of people, right?

    Jack:

    Right. Well, I mean, I think that there’s a sweet spot as with anything.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    I think that, you know, the pendulum goes one way and then it goes the other way. I think right now we’re too far on the one side. I think that you have to have the possibility of risk to have masculinity. And, you know, if you don’t have the possibility of risk, you know, if you knew that you would never, ever, ever, ever, ever be attacked.

    Tucker:

    Oh, I’d say a lot of shit.

    Jack:

    The MMA training would be worthless, right?

    Tucker:

    Exactly. Totally pointless.

    Jack:

    So, I mean, it’s the possibility of violence that makes it like exciting.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    So, the possibility that something bad could happen. And, so, if you take away all that possibility and live in a world of complete safety then masculinity cannot flourish.

    Tucker:

    Right. But does risk have to be marshal violence between groups who are trying to kill each other? Can it be other sorts of risks as a proxy for that? Whether it’s sports or MMA or business or any number of things, you know?

    Jack:

    Well, that’s what sports have always been.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    Sports are peace time violence.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    Within, you know, a tribe that is stable in a time of peace, you have sports and things like that but I think that, you know, if you get, you know, 400 years out from the last actual violence then I think that then, you know, you that’s a possibility that goes down, you know what I mean? I feel like in many cases, you know, like you’ve had sports because this generation doesn’t have a war but the next one is going to.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    I mean, in ancient Rome or any other place where they had, you know, sporting events, I mean, the anticipation of actual violence was always there. I mean, I think that, you know, once you have nothing but playing then you have, you know, it becomes kind of a masturbatory society. And I do think that men do need to test themselves. They need to have that kind of narrative otherwise, we just kind of have, we’d just be kind of become a shadow of ourselves.

    Tucker:

    Right. Well, I mean, we talked actually earlier about Hero’s Journey. So, Hero’s Journey is very much like in line with what you’re talking about. But does it always have to be, in your mind it always has to end in some sort of marshal output against someone you define as an other? Or does it, can it be, you know, like?

    Jack:

    Well, I think in many ways, like Aion and I always talk about that. I always make a point to say like men bond and I think this comes from Lionel Tiger. But like men bond, you know, over aggression but it might be aggression against nature.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    So, I mean, men get a lot of use– There other kinds of risks. You know, it doesn’t necessarily have to be against men. When men hunt they get the same thing.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    When they have to complete a task that’s really hard, you know, say like get on an oil rig and it could break or whatever. You have this, this risk there that’s, you know, that’s men fighting nature and all these things. So, I mean, I think that there’s, there’s ample opportunity for satisfaction in that. I think that we’re in a place unfortunately where technology actually takes a lot of that away too. You know? We’re in a place where like, you know, like you go to those. There are very few places where you can actually have a dangerous job anymore.

    Tucker:

    Yeah. No, it is actually kind of hard. You’re right.

    Jack:

    Yeah.

    Tucker:

    I know Mike Rowe was actually talking about that that it took them a while before they actually could find enough dirty jobs, like dirty, not just meaning filthy but risky actually.

    Jack:

    Yeah.

    Geoff:

    Yeah and I think young men have the sort of delusion that doing the more ritualized martial arts like Tae Kwon Do and going to the shooting range and watching a bunch of action hero movies is an adequate substitute for actually experiencing real life risk or violence. And then when real violence or the threat of it happens they’re completely unprepared. For example, in a simunations training course where you go out to a shooting range with these kind of modified Glocks and shoot little paint balls. And people come at you and you have to kind of practice your tactical evasion and verbal command skills and decide when to draw, when to shoot. And even the guys that’s spent years on the range plinking with targets just screamed like little girls when, when the trainers came at them acting like muggers, right? And they just panicked and lost it because they’d never experienced a true adrenaline rush.

    Jack:

    Yeah.

    Geoff:

    Under stress before and I thought man, a lot of young men are just kind of playing at the trappings of the Hero’s quest.

    Tucker:

    They’re putting on the identity of masculinity and not actually doing it.

    Geoff:

    But they really don’t know and I think this is also why a lot of them have, you know, PTSD if they actually go to Iraq or Afghanistan and they’re just really unprepared for it.

    Jack:

    Yeah. I’m sure. I mean, if you think about even 50 years ago or 100 years ago guys who went to war had been doing the Tom Sawyer scraping, you know, the whole way through, you know, and then all of a sudden, you know, to have to be in battle. Which is, I think, modern battle is kind of weird anyway. It’s like they, of course, they most of the way they get hurt is walking.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    They just walk oh, I got blown up. You know, it’s not like they’re in a battle fighting somebody. They’re just like oh, yeah, you just have to be scared about walking.

    Tucker:

    Yeah.

    Jack:

    Stuff like that. It’s kind of a weird way to fight wars.

    Tucker:

    Jack, so, you know, one of the defining sentences of I guess or sections of The Way of Men is the Way of Men is the gang. And you kind of talk about like. So, can you explain, you don’t really explain it in the book what really do you– So, let’s say I’m a young guy and I’m like, alright, I read your book. I love it. Totally get it. I don’t have enough risk in my life. I want more. I want to form a gang or join a gang. What does that actually, what does The Way of Men look like in real life for me as a young guy? Like what are things I should be or could be, what are things I could be doing? Like what does that really mean? Take it out of theory and into practice for me as a 19 year old.

    Jack:

    A great example. It’s the best example I’ve seen. Like is this gang. I did an article about it called The Wolves of Vinland. It’s this gang in Virginia of these guys who they actually swear into a gang. They wear motorcycle cuts but they don’t have motorcycles. It’s not a motorcycle gang. And they have a tribe. They have places they have to be all the time. They have people who they depend on, you know? Once a month they meet up and they actually fight in the dirt. They fight in the dirt all day and then they have this kind of heathen ritual thing at night. And it’s really, it was really real. I went down to see it in Virginia and it was really real. I have a couple of those guys coming up to meet me soon. I mean, obviously, that’s not going to be the right thing for everybody but in terms of– I mean, you really have to, a gang really means that you care more about these people than you care about other people. You can’t just, you know, sit in your house and be separated from everybody and just have this cute little club. I mean, you have to have these shared interests and that’s hard to do in modern society. But I think if–

    Geoff:

    It can’t be like a Facebook gang.

    Jack:

    No because that doesn’t mean anything. People threaten to do that, you know? But I have seen and that is interesting though because I have. There is this forum that I followed for a few years. And I’ve met some of these guys in real life. It was, it used to be Arthur’s Hall of Viking Manliness and then they had a little forum that came off of that.

    Tucker:

    Oh, yeah, I heard about that. Yeah.

    Jack:

    Yeah. And I’ve met some of those guys and a lot of those guys have been hanging out on the internet since they were like 14 years old.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    And now, they’re grown up. Some of them have gone through the military already or whatever. And they get together and they actually have a culture from that because they have like all these shared jokes and all these cultural features that have happened over years and years and years.

    Tucker:

    Yeah.

    Jack:

    Just from the internet and then when they get together, you know, they bond really quick because they have all this history. So, it kind of can happen on the internet but eventually it has to be in the real world or it’s just, you know, bullshit.

    Tucker:

    Right, right.

    Jack:

    You know, but it was kind of cool to see. I mean, those guys, you know, met up, all bought a bunch of guns and were camping for three or four days and they had a great time.

    Tucker:

    Well, let’s go back to the Virginia gang because I’m a little confused. Like you said it’s really real but what do they do? Like a gang’s supposed to have a purpose, right? Like we, it’s not just people rely on us and I care more about these people than other people. There’s generally got to be a unifying mission, purpose, goal, right? I mean, like if you’re thinking about like a tribal gang it’s let’s keep our tribe safe, right?

    Jack:

    Right.

    Tucker:

    What is, what is the purpose of these guys? Or their goal or whatever?

    Jack:

    I think, I mean, identity is a purpose. You know, having an identity especially in modern society. I mean, that’s what they’re selling to us all the time is like everybody wants to have some kind of identity and they don’t really have anything that’s not disposable. And I think having an actual identity is a purpose unto itself. Then that’s what I think a lot of people crave. And when I get emails from people, guys about this, they’re like I need to have something like that in my life. I need to have some connection to other dudes that is more important. You know, it’s, I mean, obviously, if somebody in that tribe has threatened then all of a sudden you have a purpose, you know? I mean, basically, I don’t think that tribes necessarily have to have a, you know, a higher purpose in the sense. And I don’t think like MS13 has a higher purpose. You know what I mean?

    Tucker:

    They do, they do actually have a higher purpose though. It’s to make–

    Jack:

    Then you have interest and you need to get stuff to support those interests and then you do what you need to do.

    Tucker:

    I shouldn’t say that they have a higher purpose. They have a purpose. I mean.

    Jack:

    Right.

    Tucker:

    I mean, MS13 definitely has a purpose. Like every narco-trafficking gang has a very clear maybe not a higher purpose as we define it. I mean, almost certainly not but they have. That’s sort of my point is like I wonder, I think this is actually one of the reasons why start up culture has become so popular so fast. It’s not just that people want to make money through starting new companies and it’s not even that, that all this information people realize is the way now. I think it’s that, that startups are a way that people can join in a small group of like-minded people who have a common purpose that they find meaningful, you know? But they’re actually doing something. Like our goal is to create this company that does X whether we’re digging wells in Africa or making an app. And a lot, I get a lot of the sort of results are relatively consumeristic and masturbatory. Like, yeah, probably. Some of them are amazing though, right? Okay, fine. That, that was one of the things I didn’t really fully pull out of The Way of Men is like alright, if you’re Romulus and you want to found Rome I get a gang is the way to start. Makes total sense. But I don’t know what a gang looks like because even what you just said is like okay, these guys they now have an identity. But an identity that surrounds what? Like they don’t, like if they’re all hunters or something that makes sense. And, you know, even if they’re all into like raw milk or I don’t know. Like there are things that you can, you know, there’s a bunch of people, you know, organic farmers whatever. There’s a million identities.

    Jack:

    Well, I think they’re united by the revolt against the modern world to a certain extent. I mean.

    Tucker:

    But they live in the modern world though, right?

    Jack:

    Huh?

    Tucker:

    They live in the modern world. They live in Virginia.

    Jack:

    Well, you can’t not live in the modern world but–

    Tucker:

    I mean, but like.

    Jack:

    In the sense of like what they’re reacting to in terms of like value systems and so forth. So, I mean they do have a shared set of values and it’s not just like oh, we’re together in the same room therefore, we have an identity.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    I mean they have some shared values and things like that that they, I mean– I know there’s part of their group is has their own kind of sustainable kind of house that they’re building and stuff like that. So, I mean, they have some value. They’re trying to separate themselves from the modern world and live in the way that they want to live rather than kind of living. You know, obviously, they all interface with the modern world. I mean, as do the Amish.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    But the Amish have a separate community and they’re trying to in many ways create their own way of life.

    Geoff:

    I think, you know, Tucker, I think there’s two key differences between a gang and let’s say a startup company. One is we’re so used to consumerist capitalism that we think any given group or organization needs to have some kind of mission statement, right or corporate value statement. And the thing is most prehistoric gangs and tribes they don’t have any ulterior goal other than just.

    Tucker:

    Surviving.

    Geoff:

    Surviving and doing well and it’s not like they sit down and go okay, our gang’s goal is to, you know, cure the world’s fresh water scarcity problems. They just go basically our goals are entirely instinctive. We’re going to hang out, have fun, defend ourselves, get shit, like get groupies whatever.

    Tucker:

    We’re going to survive, right.

    Geoff:

    We’re going to survive and then later they might need some moralistic rationale, right, for why they deserve respect from other gangs. But I think the basic gang psychology is like there’s no collective purpose beyond just the instincts to form the gang. And that’s a very alien way to think for modern guys. The second difference is you can’t have a startup where you exclude women. Every American business or corporation has to be open to both sexes. Whereas, it seems like Jack’s notion of gang is it’s all male and so, it’s almost excluded from doing anything sort economically significant in society because then they’d be subject to all kinds of laws about oh, you can’t just arbitrarily exclude women who might want to join the gang.

    Tucker:

    But as I understand it, Jack, the guys you’re– and this might not be a great example so if it’s not that’s fine. But the guys you were talking about in Virginia. They’re building a community houses like a resilient community which a bunch of different types of groups are doing. I think it makes a ton of sense for a lot of different reasons. But I assume that they’re, I mean unless they’re all, you know, homosexuals or whatever they have women, right? I mean, they’re, some of them are married.

    Jack:

    Again, gang and tribe.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    They’re building a tribe to go with their gang, you know?

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    So, that’s, I mean, they have. Yeah, they have women members, they participate in a lot of things. They’re actually a few women members of the gang, too.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    But, you know, they’re mostly men. And, but, and, you know, another, you know, we always hear about crime and MS13 and stuff like that. But I think maybe something that is more analogous to what I’m talking about is maybe like motorcycle gangs.

    Tucker:

    Yeah.

    Jack:

    In the sense of like they create an identity in many ways. A lot of them used to be like disgruntled vets and stuff that wanted to break away from society in a different way. And, so, it’s kind of more similar to that and I think that that’s, I mean, in many ways if you look at somebody who’s coming from like the “manosphere” or coming from like just some dissatisfaction with feminism or the modern world or the way they have to interact or political correctness and they read something like The Way of Men. The reason they want to do this is because, in many ways, they’re revolting against something so they want to create a new identity that’s against something. So, there is kind of, you know, some kind of purpose there to begin with.

    Tucker:

    Right, right, right. Alright, so, let’s try. One of the things I was trying to do in our podcast for our listeners is have actionable sort of advice out of this. And the first thing I would recommend to anyone listening is go read Jack’s book The Way of Men because like at this point the podcast is worthless if you haven’t read the book because we’re already assuming knowledge of the book. But let’s get back to sort of the original question. If I’m a 19 year old and I feel very, a lot of the same things that you’ve identified in your book and a lot of guys feel, whether it’s, you know, sort of disenchanted or disenfranchised from the modern world, you know, feel all these urges to takes risks and desires for things like that a lot of people frown upon, but, you know, are integral to who they are. I’m like alright, I want to form a gang or I want to do these sorts of things. What are some ways like you’ve already given one example. You can form your own sort of community and actually create a gang. Are there steps, you think, towards that? Because that’s pretty, I don’t want to say extreme but that’s a lot, right?

    Jack:

    Yeah.

    Tucker:

    So, where would a 19 year old.

    Jack:

    It’s hard.

    Tucker:

    Right, it’s not, I mean that’s part of it. I get that’s part of the sort of the thing is that it’s worth it because it’s hard, right?

    Jack:

    Yeah.

    Tucker:

    So, if I’m a 19 year old and I’m like alright dude. Like maybe I’ll get there in a few years. What do I do now? You know? Like what do I do right now?

    Jack:

    Use your computer to find ways to get off your computer. Basically, in the sense of like, build real life connections to other men in your area. Like as simple as if someone wanted to go train at a martial arts gym. You know, like, of a sudden you’re meeting dudes that you’re having some kind of physical interaction with on a regular basis that could then become real life friends that you have a connection with. And all of a sudden, you’re building a network and you maybe go to their businesses or get a job from that guy or whatever. I mean, that’s a real network that actually matters.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    Once you have, I mean, I have that at my gym. It’s like I made friends with this guy at the gym. All of a sudden he moves the location and that’s where I have my tattoo shop now because we started out as friends at the gym and all of a sudden, you know. So, we have like this trading relationship and we are connected.

    Tucker:

    Right, right, right.

    Jack:

    In some way. And, so, like you start building those kind of connections to, where you’re for trade or whatever, you’re depending on more than, more on people around you and less on external things from far away.

    Tucker:

    Right, right, right.

    Jack:

    Being closer to men close to you, that’s better.

    Tucker:

    So, I guess the beginning step in The Way of Men for you actual step is creating a social network with guys that like similar things to you that you get along with and then building out from there.

    Jack:

    Yeah, you gotta have friends.

    Tucker:

    Having friends. Right, exactly.

    Jack:

    A lot of guys don’t have friends, you know? I think modern life, you know, it’s very conditioned that we’re going to meet a mate and then go off and then just be with that mate and do that, you know? They’ll go into a girlfriend tunnel and all of a sudden they don’t have any friends anymore.

    Tucker:

    Yeah.

    Jack:

    And then they’re kind of completely dependent on a woman and they have no network.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    And, so, I think that they need to, that’s a tough thing too is for them to keep that network because girlfriends take time and friends take time. But if you, you know, you’ve got to have both.

    Geoff:

    So, just to kind of push on that point a little bit more. Let’s say, you know, a guy wants to learn how to use power tools. The two kinds of options are there’s the consumerist option where you go to like rent power tools and Home Depot. The other option is you have friends who you know have power tools you can borrow a Miter saw from.

    Tucker:

    Or you make friends actually, I think.

    Geoff:

    Right. And I guess your point is you can kind of do a reality check where you go what guys do I actually know in person where I live who I could get helpful resources or tools or advice from? As opposed to kind of relying on this impersonal economic exchange.

    Tucker:

    Right. And if you don’t know them, go find them and then befriend them. Which is the other step, I think.

    Jack:

    It’s also hard because, you know, like it’s easy to surround yourself with people who are going to be nice to you and they kind of affirm you but you know if you’re kind of, if you’re going to go out and be friends with men you have to, you know, be ready for the potential of criticism because men can be a little harsh. Men are harder to be around than, you know, a bunch of women that’ll like everything you post on Facebook.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    You know, I mean, you have to be willing to go out especially if you want to be around, if you want to make yourself better you have to surround yourself with better men, you know? Men who are probably not, where you’re not going to be the alpha. And that’s hard for a lot of guys because they don’t really– It’s really easy to be an alpha by yourself. You need to go out and be willing to be around guys who are going to criticize you, because those are the guys who you’re going to learn how to use the power tools from.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    You’re coming to them as someone who doesn’t know anything. Hopefully, you have something else to offer.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    But, you know, that’s, I mean, what Geoff brought up about the consumerist point is, so much of this and that’s what’s really frustrating about all of this manliness stuff is that so many of our options are really kind of bourgeois in the sense of like, you know. How many of us can afford to go and take martial arts? Or like, so many of these things that we can do are like kind of like upper class, you know, fun things.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    Whereas, like the guy who’s making ten bucks an hour can’t do all this stuff. So, it’s kind of it’s a very interesting thing to think about, I mean. As far as like, like the power tools things, I love to go hunting. I don’t have the network for that. That’s like.

    Tucker:

    You’ve got to come to Texas, dude. I’ve got a fucking house full of guns and there’s no bag limit and no season on hogs.

    Jack:

    What?

    Tucker:

    I know twenty. You can shoot them from a helicopter actually if you want. I know 20 friends who have like leases. If you want to come hog hunting dude come down to Texas and we’ll go kill a bunch of hogs. I mean, that’s–

    Jack:

    That’s like, that’s the thing. If you don’t have the network, like.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    It’s like you have to have like, you know, you have to figure out what the tag season system is and then you have to go find where do you even hunt, you know?

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    It’s this whole thing where if you have an uncle or a grandpa then it’s just this thing that you do, you know? So, you know, it’s a harder and harder thing, I think, for young men to do, they don’t have that experience, you know?

    Geoff:

    So, on the uncle grandpa issue, do you think it’s important in a gang to have kind of a mixture of ages so the young men are actually interacting with guys who are not just their peer group, the same cohort. Where it’s kind of the local alpha’s likely to be 20 years older than you if you’re in a proper gang that’s inclusive, it’s not going to be just a bunch of 19 year olds getting together and doing a little sort of fight club thing, right? It’s going to be transmission of experience and wisdom and skills from, you know, elders to youth. It’s going to involve mentors.

    Jack:

    I think that’s a mature gang. I mean, that’s like a mature, I mean that’s when it becomes the tribe and becomes part of a community. I think that realistically it’s going to be the 19 year olds getting together and who are really going to bond because they’re going to have the most in common.

    Tucker:

    Yeah.

    Jack:

    But hopefully, you know, when they become 25 they bring in some more 19 year olds. Then all of a sudden you start to have that. I think that’s important to have any kind of consistency and to replace that thing that a lot of these men are lacking which is kind of father figures and role models and things like that. But I don’t know. If you guys don’t mind. Does anyone want to talk about the word alpha?

    Tucker:

    Please actually. No, I would. Oh, dude.

    Jack:

    It’s really bugging me lately.

    Tucker:

    No. let’s actually because I think the alpha/beta distinction and the whole word alpha is so fucking stupid and almost every single person.

    Jack:

    We all use it though.

    Tucker:

    Because it’s an easy shortcut to know I understand what you mean, the highest ranking male. Except most people who use it don’t mean that and they don’t know what they’re talking about. But, Jack, why don’t you please talk about alpha for a second?

    Jack:

    Well, it’s just, it’s such a, it is a confusing term and it’s become this marketing term and I’ve seen it more and more as people are kind of opening up the way that they’re marketing to men.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    Everything is ‘become an alpha’.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    Everything good is now alpha.

    Tucker:

    With Axe body spray.

    Jack:

    Yeah. Everything is alpha, alpha, alpha, and it’s like it’s become ridiculous because it’s such a—A. I hate the idea that there’s a type like the alpha is a type, a fixed type. I think that what they’re really saying is they’re saying become more masculine. I mean, become more dominant, become more masculine, have more of these traits that I talked about in the way of men. And more strength, courage, mastery, and honor. But so many cases they’re just using it in this way that it almost is like this guy is always going to be alpha and this guy is always going to be beta. And that’s just not the case because it’s scalable. I mean, if you look, I mean, really like I can walk into a room and kind of be the big dog and I can walk into a room and definitely not, you know? And it just depends on the situation and then people–It becomes very confusing. It’s like are we talking about from like an evolutionary perspective because that’s one kind of alpha or are we talking like do we call Bill Gates an alpha because–

    Tucker:

    He has a lot of money.

    Jack:

    He can run a lot of people.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    You know, but that doesn’t mean that he has the same qualities that we’re talking about in evolutionary terms.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Jack:

    So, it becomes really frustrating and you see these guys selling it as the guy who makes the most money is alpha. And then I always say like so, Britney Spears is alpha? You know, because really it’s like if that’s what it’s about then like, you know, Beyonce can order a whole bunch of dudes around.

    Tucker:

    Yep.

    Jack:

    You know, because she has money but that doesn’t mean she’s alpha. You know what I mean? So, it’s really become this really messy, messy, messy term so I don’t know what you guys have to say about it. But that’s.

    Tucker:

    It’s almost exactly, I think, I would just repeat what you just said almost, yeah. I don’t know. Geoff, do you have a–?

    Geoff:

    Yeah, it’s kind of pretty diluted. I mean, you can overhear freshman saying ‘dude, your iPhone case is so alpha.’

    Tucker:

    That’s awesome.

    Geoff:

    Because it has skulls on it and it’s leather. Yeah, that alpha drop with the bass is whatever. I think you’re right Jack that it means basically become more masculine and it’s just kind of code words, a marketing code word for that.

    Tucker:

    Yeah.

    Geoff:

    Because in the feminist era it just sounds weird to pitch anything as become more masculine.

    Tucker:

    Right.

    Geoff:

    Like it’s almost insulting to young men whereas, all of them can go “Yeah, ok, I know I’m not very alpha”.

    Tucker:

    No, no, no.

    —Huffduffed by demmons

  3. David Allen on Getting Things Done (GTD), Proactive VS Reactive, and The Power of Daily Review - Episode #64 - The Sales Blog

    Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 50:04 — 45.9MB)Subscribe: iTunes | Android | Email | RSSAnyone who’s been in the business world over the course of the past 30 years has heard of Getting Things Done (GTD), the productivity approach that David Allen revealed in his incredible book by the same name. Anthony points to the GTD approach as the one thing that has turned around both his desire and his ability to be truly productive day in and day out – a massively needed thing for his busy life. Today’s episode features a conversation between Anthony and David that gets into some of the history of the GTD approach and how David applies the system to his own life. You’ll get some high level and very practical things in this episode with one of the most influential people in the realm of action and effectiveness.

    David Allen, creator of Getting Things Done on this episode of In The ArenaClick To Tweet

    Your favorite sports teams do it, why don’t you?

    Think of your favorite sports team right now – any sport. Do you imagine that they spend the majority of their time doing what they want and then preparing for their games only a few hours before gametime? That’s ridiculous, right? But most of us handle our lives in exactly that way. We wake, take care of personal hygiene, etc. – then head to the office and dive right in. We wind up putting out fires all day long and responding to whatever comes up instead of being truly productive. David Allen says that one of the keys to the GTD system is that it requires a daily review time BEFORE you actually get started with the day. It’s a time to assess what’s possible, what’s on your lists, and what you will take action on for the day. It’s the only way he knows that successful people truly get things done. Find out how to implement your own daily review on this episode.

    What is your next action? That’s one of the most important questions you can ask.

    During their conversation for this episode of the podcast Anthony asked David Allen, author of Getting Things Done, why it’s so difficult for people to choose their next action. The simple answer is that it’s hard work to figure out much of the time. But it’s also the most important thing you can do to align your daily activity with the things that are truly the most important to you. On this episode David tells how you can think through your life and your life goals to ensure that your decisions about next actions are the ones that will move you ahead most effectively. Be sure you carve out the time to listen. Who knows, this may be YOUR best “next action.”

    Control without focus is micromanagement and focus without control is crazymaking ~ David AllenClick To Tweet

    Make better decisions by raising yourself up to a higher level.

    Many times the decisions we make are reactionary, simple responses to the things that happen throughout the course of life. Sometimes that’s necessary and helpful, but much of the time it’s nothing more than a distraction to the truly important things. On this episode of In The Arena, David and Anthony discuss how a brief moment of “higher level” thinking – consideration of the decision in light of your life’s higher goals – can help you decide whether to delay certain tasks, delegate them, or not do them at all. It’s a very helpful, simple, but profound way of looking at the tasks that crop up each day. You’ll get a lot out of this part of the conversation.

    Why do you live in your inbox?

    It’s a pretty common thing in the business world to see professionals checking their email repeatedly within a short matter of time. It’s one thing to check email just before going into an important meeting so you can go in prepared with last minute information. It’s quite another to live in your inbox, checking it multiple times every hour. David Allen suggests that you’d never do that if it was “real” mail, in a physical mailbox outside your house. You’d get on with the more important things in life and check your mail once a day. Rethinking the tools and making them work for you is one of the most important things you can do to get a handle on your productivity and you can learn from David Allen, the master of Getting Things Done, on this episode.

    Start to pay attention to what has your attention ~ David Allen, on this episodeClick To Tweet

    Outline of this great episode

    [1:30] How our lives are more complicated and involved than ever.

    [2:24] The impact GTD (Getting Things Done) had on Anthony’s life.

    [4:48] How David came to understand the GTD philosophy.

    [9:21] When David figured out that GTD was big enough to be his life’s work.

    [12:51] What causes such difficulty in deciding on a next action?

    [18:37] How moving up to a higher level of consideration helps in making decisions.

    [20:30] What does it mean to be productive? What is productivity?

    [22:12] The baggage around the world “efficiency.”

    [23:15] Are people experiencing a greater sense of stress today than back in the 80s?

    [25:37] Does technology offer answers to the stress and overwhelm people feel?

    [29:15] What does neuroscience tell us about focus and attention?

    [33:15] What’s the price we pay for being constantly distracted?

    [37:14] What’s the root cause of procrastination and how can it be fixed?

    [39:36] GTD across the globe and dealing with cultures when it comes to productivity.

    [42:00] The type of people who use and need GTD (everybody).

    [43:05] The power and importance of the weekly review.

    [47:34] Last book David read and the most influential books he’s read.

    [49:50] The people who have had the most influence on David.

    [51:11] The most important thing David has learned in life.

    [51:48] What job would David want to do if he wasn’t doing what he does now?

    [52:41] What David wants to be remembered for.

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    Resources & Links mentioned in this episode

    David Allen

    Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity

    Price: $5.50

    (1998 customer reviews)

    636 used & new available from $0.01

    Making It All Work: Winning at the Game of Work and the Business of Life

    Price: $14.96

    (95 customer reviews)

    165 used & new available from $0.01

    Age of Ambition: Chasing Fortune, Truth, and Faith in the New China

    Price: $11.30

    (262 customer reviews)

    148 used & new available from $2.06

    Black Elk Speaks: Being the Life Story of a Holy Man of the Oglala Sioux, The Premier Edition

    Price: $15.00

    (247 customer reviews)

    121 used & new available from $2.58

    The theme song “Into the Arena” is written and produced by Chris Sernel. You can find it on Soundcloud

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    Tweets you can use to share this episode

    It’s really all efficiency, in a way ~ David Allen, on this episode of In The ArenaClick To Tweet

    If you know what you’re doing, it’s a fabulous time to be alive. If you don’t, you’re toast. ~ David AllenClick To Tweet

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    —Huffduffed by demmons

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